Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V16_5/V16NO534.TXT

Internet Message Format | 1993-07-13 | 28KB

Date: Thu,  6 May 93 05:06:12
From: Space Digest maintainer <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Subject: Space Digest V16 #534
To: Space Digest Readers
Precedence: bulk


Space Digest                Thu,  6 May 93       Volume 16 : Issue 534

Today's Topics:
   A Little Pace o' My Heart Now (was Re: Long term Human Missions)
                April Air and Space Articles. (2 msgs)
      ASTRONAUTS---What does weightlessness feel like? (2 msgs)
           Boeing TSTO (Was: Words from Chairman of Boeing)
Coriolis (was Re: ASTRONAUTS---What does weightlessness feel like?) (2 msgs)
             HST Servicing Mission Scheduled for 11 Days
                              IP-36 ESM
                    large accelerations revisited
                     Looking for DC-X ftp source
                    Philosophy Quest.  How Boldly?
             Two-Line Orbital Element Set:  Space Shuttle
                         Vandalizing the sky.
             Visas for astronauts after an abort (2 msgs)
                           Why go to Pluto

    Welcome to the Space Digest!!  Please send your messages to
    "[e-mail]", and (un)subscription requests of the form
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 17:34:06 GMT
From: Glenn Toews <[e-mail]>
Subject: A Little Pace o' My Heart Now (was Re: Long term Human Missions)
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle

Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey ([e-mail]) wrote:
: In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gary Coffman) writes:
: > In article <[e-mail]> rek@siss81 (Robert Kaye) writes:
: >>3.    Pacemakers (Kept my grandfather alive from 1976 until 1988)
: >
: > Pacemakers have been around since the 1940s. *Implantable* pacemakers
: > required development of solid state devices and externally rechargable
: > power sources.


Implantable devices came about in the early 60's and have benefitted greatly
by advances in semi-conductor technology spurred by NASA, the defense
industry, etc.. The early ones were the size of a small donut and were pretty
simple, i.e. pace the patients heart at 70 beats per minute all the time
whether it was needed or not.


: I worked for Cordis, a major manufacturer of cardiac pacemakers, in
: the summer of '75.   I don't believe they made an "externally
: rechargeable" pacer at that time and I wonder whether such things
: existed.

: They ran on batteries (sorry, don't remember what kind).  Batteries
: and electronics were potted in epoxy in an assembly about the size of
: a plum.  A surgeon attached leads to the right part of the heart, and
: the leads ran to a pacer implanted in the patient's abdomen.  Every
: two or three years, when the battery life was ended, they would do an
: operation to snip the leads, remove the pacer, and splice a fresh one
: into the old lead.  This was simpler than doing more heart surgery.


Nowadays pacemakers usually encased in a titanuim shell that doesn't react
with body chemicals. The smallest ones are several millimeters thick and
slightly larger than a quarter. Leads are attached to the pacer by set
screws or other similar means, allowing pacer replacement without splicing.


: The technology was old since they had to prove extreme reliability;
: when I was there the first models containg integrated circuits were
: just entering service.  These were clever:  they had a magnetic read
: switch inside.  A physician could put a big coil against a patient's
: chest and reprogram the pacer for different heart rate, etc. with a
: series of pulses.

: Cordis had done a lot of development on the nuclear-powered pacer,
: basically  plutonium RTG like  the one that runs Voyager or Galileo.
: It had a 20-year rated lifetime, but was kind of a mismatch since most
: pacer patients don't live 20 years after their operation.  They were
: "installed" in a few people but there were big safety concerns (what
: if the plutonium gets loose in some horrible car wreck?).  The labs
: were working on a 10-year model based on new lithium batteries that
: threatened to make the nuclear pacemaker obsolete.  I guess they did.


New pacemakers have a life of 7-12 years (sometimes more if the patient
doesn't depend on the pacer very much). The frequency of patients
outlasting more than one pacemaker is increasing as pacing technology
improves, allowing their use for a wider range of heart ailments in younger
patients.

These devices are truly amazing in how they are able to greatly enhance
and lengthen the life of many heart patients without requiring major
surgery. We really do owe a lot to NASA and other tax-dollar sponsered
research organizations for technology advances that make pacemakers and
many other devices possible. Just ask our current Defense Secretary  ;)


:      O~~*           /_) ' / /   /_/ '  ,   ,  ' ,_  _           \|/
:    - ~ -~~~~~~~~~~~/_) / / /   / / / (_) (_) / / / _\~~~~~~~~~~~zap!
:  /       \                          (_) (_)                    / | \
:  |       |     Bill Higgins   Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
:  \       /     Bitnet:     [e-mail]
:    -   -       Internet:  [e-mail]
:      ~         SPAN/Hepnet:      43011::HIGGINS




G.Toews (sorry no fancy .sig

------------------------------

Date: 4 May 1993 10:51:51 -0400
From: Pat <[e-mail]>
Subject: April Air and Space Articles.
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ron Baalke) writes:
>
>Venus, burned up in Venus' atmosphere last year.  By the way, the Voyagers
>are funded through the year 2019.


Why can voyager be funded through 2019,  while magellan and COBE
are closing up shop for  lack of O&M funds.

pat

------------------------------

Date: 5 May 1993 23:38 UT
From: Ron Baalke <[e-mail]>
Subject: April Air and Space Articles.
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <1s5vu7$[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Pat) writes...
>
>Why can voyager be funded through 2019,  while magellan and COBE
>are closing up shop for  lack of O&M funds.

The Voyagers are in a low maintenance mode.  They basically are only
collecting fields and particles data and recording them to tape recorders,
The contents of the tape recorders are dumped every 6 months to Earth.
The funding for the Voyager Interstellar Mission came in 1990 when NASA's
budget wasn't under severe stress as it is today.  The UVS portion of the
Voyager budget was recently discontinued, but they will still continue
to search for the heliopause.  Magellan, on the other hand, requires daily
contact with the DSN to collect its data.  If radar data is collected, then
special SAR processing is also needed.  The money to extend Magellan
isn't a whole lot either, only $8 million.

I don't know enough about COBE to have any comment on it.
   ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | [e-mail]
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | Once a year, go someplace
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | you've never been before.
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     |

------------------------------

Date: 5 May 93 15:47:34 GMT
From: Robert Hearn <[e-mail]>
Subject: ASTRONAUTS---What does weightlessness feel like?
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] wrote:
>
> : In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jerry Liebelson) writes...
>
> Jerry:
> : >And what is the motion sickness
> : >that some astronauts occasionally experience?
>
> Ron:
> : It is the body's reaction to a strange environment.  It appears to be
> : induced partly to physical discomfort and part to mental distress.
> : Some people are more prone to it than others, like some people are more
> : prone to get sick on a roller coaster ride than others.

But are they the same set of people?  If I get queasy on a roller coaster,
would I necessarily have a problem with zero G?  For me, and probably a
lot of people, the worst part is not the loss of sense of direction,
but the combination of this with rapidly changing forces.  That is,

it feels like your body is being pushed in different directions
suddenly, and you're not sure just what those directions are.  It
seems like this aspect would be missing in zero G.


Bob Hearn
Spartacus Software

Opinions expressed here are those of my employer, since that's me.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 18:17:05 GMT
From: "Adam R. Brody " <[e-mail]>
Subject: ASTRONAUTS---What does weightlessness feel like?
Newsgroups: sci.space

[e-mail] (Robert Hearn) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail] wrote:
>>
>> : In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jerry Liebelson) writes...
>>
>> Jerry:
>> : >And what is the motion sickness
>> : >that some astronauts occasionally experience?
>>
>> Ron:
>> : It is the body's reaction to a strange environment.  It appears to be
>> : induced partly to physical discomfort and part to mental distress.
>> : Some people are more prone to it than others, like some people are more
>> : prone to get sick on a roller coaster ride than others.

>But are they the same set of people?  If I get queasy on a roller coaster,
>would I necessarily have a problem with zero G?  For me, and probably a
>lot of people, the worst part is not the loss of sense of direction,
>but the combination of this with rapidly changing forces.  That is,
>it feels like your body is being pushed in different directions
>suddenly, and you're not sure just what those directions are.  It
>seems like this aspect would be missing in zero G.

>Bob Hearn
>Spartacus Software

>Opinions expressed here are those of my employer, since that's me.

While the symptomology of various types of motion sickness, inlcuding
Space Motion Sickness, are similar, there is no corrolation between car
sickness and SMS, for example.  One could fare very well on roller coasters
and still get sick in space.  Nevertheless, I am still very willing to go!

------------------------------

Date: 4 May 1993 10:46:27 -0400
From: Pat <[e-mail]>
Subject: Boeing TSTO (Was: Words from Chairman of Boeing)
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Henry Spencer) writes:
|if your sole objective is orbit.  Getting involved with aerodynamics
|in a serious way when you don't have to (and launchers don't have to)
|is silly and counterproductive.  But if you are *already* in the
|aerodynamics business, and plan to stay in it, that changes things a bit.

Maybe,  boeing is in the business of getting launcher money to
improve their  aerodynamics business.  like they may not care about
the launcher,  but if they can get moeny to pay for developeing a
large fast  mach 3  civil transport,  then they have something.

pat

------------------------------

Date: 5 May 93 12:14:02
From: Craig Powderkeg DeForest <[e-mail]>
Subject: Coriolis (was Re: ASTRONAUTS---What does weightlessness feel like?)
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.physics

In article <foo> [e-mail] (Henry Spencer) writes:
   [e-mail] (Craig "Powderkeg" DeForest) writes:
   >I first experienced this in the `Shuttle ride' centrifuge at the
   >Huntsville Space Museum, in Alabama -- it's a very good ride, as they've
   >carefully removed all visible non-rotating reference points, and
   >the bearings are quite smooth.  The only clue that you're rotating
   >is the coriolis force.

   The Huntsville ride is definitely pretty good.  Anybody know offhand what
   the peak acceleration is?

3.mumble G's.  It's a simulated Shuttle lift-off.
--
DON'T DRINK SOAP! DILUTE DILUTE! OK!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 18:14:52 GMT
From: "Adam R. Brody " <[e-mail]>
Subject: Coriolis (was Re: ASTRONAUTS---What does weightlessness feel like?)
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.physics

[e-mail] (Henry Spencer) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Craig "Powderkeg" DeForest) writes:
>>I first experienced this in the `Shuttle ride' centrifuge at the
>>Huntsville Space Museum, in Alabama -- it's a very good ride, as they've
>>carefully removed all visible non-rotating reference points, and
>>the bearings are quite smooth.  The only clue that you're rotating
>>is the coriolis force.

>The Huntsville ride is definitely pretty good.  Anybody know offhand what
>the peak acceleration is?
>--
>SVR4 resembles a high-speed collision   | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
>between SVR3 and SunOS.    - Dick Dunn  |  [e-mail]  utzoo!henry

I expect to be there at the end of the month.  I'll try to remember to check.
My guess is something between 2-3 g.

------------------------------

Date: 4 May 1993 11:00:32 -0400
From: Pat <[e-mail]>
Subject: HST Servicing Mission Scheduled for 11 Days
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle,sci.astro

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>Well, no, for a lot of the reasons cited.  Contamination risk is less
>using the Shuttle OMS system because the Shuttle is a nice big bird
>and that distances the source of contamination from the thing you're
>worried about (not to mention Shuttle mass blocking it).
>
maybe they could create an inflatable spatter shield,  to
divert  reaction byproducts  far away from the HST.

it may be insovable,  it may not be a problem.  it needs proper
engineering analysis.

>I'm curious.  What would be your reaction if they took your advice,
>had some whiz kids cobble together something, slapped it on the butt
>of the HST, and it screwed up?  I suspect you'd be the first person
>calling for lynchings.  I'd rather have the people on the spot to deal
>with problems when we're talking about a $1G instrument.
>

It depends, on what you mean by screwed up?   if it didn't work at all.
well, back to the drawing boards.   if it pushed it into a higher
but wrong orbit,   i suppose that would be tolerable.

Now if it pushed it into earth's atmosphere,  then that would be
a bigger problem.

let say the HST de-orbited,  crashed into  Rock Creek Park here by my house
and a splinter hit my cat in the tail.  THat would be terible, and
people should hang.

now if it de-orbited and the HST hit your house, while you were sleeping
in the living room,  well, I guess we put that on the list of
major engineering blunders and get to working on a replacement HST.

pat

And besides,  these "cobbled together" projects  have a reasonably good
record.  voyager,  magellan, skylab, ASTM were all cobbled together.

>--
>"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
> in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>[e-mail] - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 05 May 93 17:42:36 EDT
From: Tom <[e-mail]>
Subject: IP-36 ESM

Phil asks:

>Has anyone else _YET_ been reminded of the Bugs Bunny cartoon where
>Marvin the Martian is going to blow up the earth because "it spoils
>my view of Venus?"

You a referring, of course, to the Illudium Pu-36 Explosive Space Modulator.
I believe NASA, at one point, took some credit for it's development...:-)

-Tommy Mac
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom McWilliams 517-355-2178 wk   \ They communicated with the communists,
[e-mail] 336-9591 hm \ and pacified the pacifists. -TimBuk3
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 17:49:53 GMT
From: fred j mccall 575-3539 <[e-mail]>
Subject: large accelerations revisited
Newsgroups: sci.space

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew DeLuca) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:

>>Not to mention making the helmet heavier.  If these things were *that*
>>good, the thing to do would be to leave the pilot on the ground in a
>>simulator and let him/her fly via remote control [...]

>Assuming, of course, that you have unjammable high bandwidth communications
>between the pilot and the aircraft.

I said something to that effect in the bit you didn't quote,
immediately following the quote you show:

"thereby removing the
human limitations entirely (communications security, reliability, and
bandwidth are all probably not good enough for this, even if the
sensors were (which they aren't)."

Hey, if remote sensing is that good, reliable, secure, high-bandwidth
communication ought to be *easy*.

--
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[e-mail] - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 17:33:42 GMT
From: Jay Thomas <[e-mail]>
Subject: Looking for DC-X ftp source
Newsgroups: sci.space


In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David
L. Sobin) writes:
>I understand that there is an ftp site somewhere that has the latest info
>on DC-X. If anyone knows the address, could you post or direct e-mail?

I was looking around one day and found it. It is "microlib.cc.utexas.edu".
in here it is in the /pub/delta clipper/

It is really neat. It has giffs of artist conceptions and stuff, it has all
sorts of text info and even a slide show.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 17:23:28 GMT
From: "Gerald W. Lester" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Philosophy Quest.  How Boldly?
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Doug Loss) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (steve hix) writes:
>>[...]
>>
>>An alien culture stumbling over us will also have an immense impact on us, one
>>that might even destroy our culture, intentionally or not.
>>
>>It's not necessary that we force our culture on the others at all.
>
>    Yes however I will argue the fact that every encounter between
>cultures on earth there has been one which is  more "powerful" than the
>other and it has been used to destroy the weaker culture, rather than
>co-existing with it. (And it has been a choice to destroy the other
>culture in all the cases known to me), I cannot recall a single instance in
>history where this has not happened. (of course I am not a historian)
>

The following are off the top of my head:

1) The Mongo invasion of Europe
    After almost getting all of Europe, they decided to go home when the
    Khan died.

2) European ans Islamic cultures during the middle ages.


    Of course one could argue that any change at all is destruction, then
all of the above cultures were destroyed and new ones created.  Of course the
"European culture" that exist today would be quite alien to someone from say
the 16th century.  And the current American culture would be even more so.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 22:03:28 GMT
From: TS Kelso <[e-mail]>
Subject: Two-Line Orbital Element Set:  Space Shuttle
Newsgroups: sci.space

The most current orbital elements from the NORAD two-line element sets are
carried on the Celestial BBS, [phone], and are updated daily (when
possible).  Documentation and tracking software are also available on this
system.  As a service to the satellite user community, the most current
elements for the current shuttle mission are provided below.  The Celestial
BBS may be accessed 24 hours/day at 300, 1200, 2400, 4800, or 9600 bps using
8 data bits, 1 stop bit, no parity.

Element sets (also updated daily), shuttle elements, and some documentation
and software are also available via anonymous ftp from archive.afit.af.mil
(129.92.1.66) in the directory pub/space.

STS 55
1 22640U 93 27  A 93125.24999999  .00041435  00000-0  11400-3 0   240
2 22640  28.4566 204.4193 0014724 329.9791 340.6464 15.92206044  1379
--
Dr TS Kelso                           Assistant Professor of Space Operations
[e-mail]                    Air Force Institute of Technology

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 16:59:07 GMT
From: fred j mccall 575-3539 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Vandalizing the sky.
Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes:
>> In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>> (stuff) ...

>> Object as you like.  Do as you like.  But if you think that a minority
>> 'right' that doesn't exist should be allowed to stand in the way of
>> research just because you don't like the idea that part of it is being
>> funded by 'grubby commercialism', then I would suggest that you come

>  (huh?  this wasn't _my_ reason for objection, but does it matter?)

Ok.  Rephrase it as an aesthetic argument of your choice.  Why does
your ostensible right to see the sky "as nature intended it" (as if
mankind is not a part of the forces of 'nature') override the 'right'
of the advertiser or the right of the folks putting it up to access
part of their funding that way so they can do things they wouldn't
otherwise be able to get funding to do?

>> up with better solutions for where to get the money from.  I'm sure
>> they'd be more than happy to listen to you, if you should come up with
>> something workable.
>>
>>>Somehow I think this whole shoving
>>>contest has gotten way off the track.  I'm ready to let this thread
>>>die a quick and merciful death.
>>
>> No doubt you are, after trying to have the last word on it.  If you're
>> ready to let it die, why did you even write a note?
>>

>Because I imprudently allowed myself to get annoyed by the beside-the-point
>'rights/non-rights' argument.

Still letting it die, I see.  ;-)

>I push to persuade, not to 'prohibit' and
>it bothers me for someone to think I could force my views on anyone.
>I'm just not that kind of person.  Views (sky sights) forced on me by
>others is another matter.

Perhaps, but where does this end?  I don't like the color of your
house and I have to see it every day as I drive by.  Paint it.  I
don't like the cut of your suit that you force me to see when you're
in a crowd.  Take it off.  I don't like the model of your car that I
have to look at on the freeway.  Junk it.

>Would it make a difference to the advertisers
>if I would _not_ be likely to buy their product just because I saw it
>in the sky?  Or that others might refuse to use their product for just that
>reason?  If they want to be effective with their advertising dollars,
>shouldn't they consider the effectiveness of the way they spend it?
>Maybe we _should_ accept money anyway we can get it, but maybe we
>should also consider the consequences.

At least this reason makes sense.  However, if this becomes one of
those 'boycot' things, does it make a difference to you that I would
buy their product preferentially if someone is trying to apply
'boycott' forces to change their policies for no good reason?  They
should take that into account, too.  It just might wind up being a net
win for them.

--
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[e-mail] - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.

------------------------------

Date: 5 May 1993 21:33:29 GMT
From: Claudio Oliveira Egalon <[e-mail]>
Subject: Visas for astronauts after an abort
Newsgroups: sci.space

I have a question that has been ringing in my
head for a while. What if after a launch, there is
one of these nasty aborts and the Shuttle has
to land in a foreign country (Spain or Morroco).
Do the astronauts need a visa for staying there
or NASA has some kind of special arrangement
with the governments of these countries???

[e-mail]

Claudio Oliveira Egalon

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 23:02:01 GMT
From: "Adam R. Brody " <[e-mail]>
Subject: Visas for astronauts after an abort
Newsgroups: sci.space

[e-mail] (Claudio Oliveira Egalon) writes:

>I have a question that has been ringing in my
>head for a while. What if after a launch, there is
>one of these nasty aborts and the Shuttle has
>to land in a foreign country (Spain or Morroco).
>Do the astronauts need a visa for staying there
>or NASA has some kind of special arrangement
>with the governments of these countries???

>[e-mail]

>Claudio Oliveira Egalon

I've read that the crews' passports are kept in a pouch at launch, ready
to be flown to an abort landing site.  I always thought that pretty strange
since it would be pretty clear and documented in the media who these people
are and from whence they came.  This issue invites further questions:
When the President flys overseas, does he, and those with him carry
passports.  What about military people?  It must have been a nightmare
having 100,000 passports for US GIs in the Persian Gulf!

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 21:40:42 GMT
From: Joe Cain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Why go to Pluto
Newsgroups: sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary,sci.space,talk.politics.space

In article <tslage78.736542042@ursa> [e-mail] (Thomas Slager) writes:
>I was talkin with a friend the other day and was insistant that even a small
>program to Pluto like the planned one was a waste of money.  He felt that all
>of the money should be devoted to developing a permanent station on the moon
>where packages could be assembled and launched at lower energy requirements.

    The lead time for going to Pluto is so long it should be done
as soon as possible. Establishing a Moon base would indeed be a good
step that should be planned and done, even if so doing means
postponing the Space station until it is needed (i.e. like maybe the
23rd century).

    A Pluto probe should not be done only to Pluto if there is
some way to hook around Uranus or Neptune to get some more information
about them, their moons and rings. (Am not sure of present
configuration and whether this is easy, does anyone know?)
Maybe an asteroid flyby might also be programmed in. There must be a
LOT of possibilities there! There are many reasons to try to put a
probe in an orbit around Pluto and/or Charon (hmm, now how does one
do that?) Maybe there is a good Lagrangian position?

    With a density of about 2 Pluto/Charon might be good
candidates for helping understand the slight increase of densities
that appear to be characteristic of that from Saturn to Uranus. One
reason to get a look at Neptune enroute is to maybe take another look
at Triton and its geyerers. etc etc.



    Perhaps such threads are best followed in talk.politics.space?
Joseph Cain        [e-mail]
[e-mail]        scri::cain
[phone]        FAX [phone] or -0098

------------------------------

End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 534
------------------------------